Live Blogging the Second Presidential Debate

(Town Hall style debate, questions from audience populated by undecided voters)
(This time, I'll try to structure my comments by question instead of time. Audience questions in bold. TB's follow up questions in italics.)

(I've got my popcorn and my whiskey....let's do this!)

(Tom is hawt)

(Grandpa Turtle (GT) looks uncomfortable in that suit.)

What's the fastest, most positive solution to bail out elderly?
O: Bush stripped (regulations) and now we all suffer. First, make sure someone actually *watches* the $700billion we just handed the industry. Then, tax cuts for the middle class, New Deal type projects at state/local level, help people keep their homes.
GT: (Does he have a neck?) (first time FEAR mentioned...by GOP, surprise) Need to have no more energy dependence. Also, we should stop taxing the rich (and everyone else, too). Sec of Treasury would buy the bad mortgages so peole can stay in their homes. This will create jobs. I thought of this all by myself.
Who should be Sec of Treas?
GT: Need to put someone in power who the American people can identify with. Like the person who started eBay. She's hot, I mean trustworthy.
O: Warren Buffett. (GT colors in his coloring book to stay awake) Someone who doesn't believe in trickle down - but who would focus on the middle.

Hawt Tom: stay in your time limits


How does the bailout package actually help us?
GT: Not bailout...rescue. I suspended my campaign to rescue you (is he really still harping on this? Does he only watch Fox News? Doesn't he realize we laughed at him?) GT insults us by suggesting that we've never heard of Fannie/Freddie before a couple of months ago. GT: Obama got money for his campaign from Fannie/Freddie. We need to stop . Stop Frannie and Freddie.
O: Businesses can't get loans. If that happens, they can't make payroll. Then we lose our jobs. That's why we needed the bailout. But we shouldn't have had to do it. Now, to GT's incorrect history lesson....just like always, he's lying. He claims to be a deregulator but in fact, he spent the last two years deregulator and this has been the downfall of us all. Also, I never promoted Fannie May.
Is the economy going to get worse before it gets better?
O: No - we have a strong economy. But we need to take actions and institute regulations.
GT: Depends on what we do.
(Both want to keep me in my house. That's nice.) (Neither can agree which recognized this problem in the first place...I want to know, if they knew it was going to happen, why didn't they do more to stop it?)

How can we trust either of you with our money when both parties got us into this mess?
O: Obviously, the individual American is completely blameless in this situation. Absolutely. It's Bush's fault - we gave him a surplus and he gave us deficit. THE REPUBLICANS DID IT!!! *ahem* I mean, no one's completely innocent. We need to invest in energy, college, etc....but cut in other areas. Change our priorities. Bush did it.
GT: The system I have been a part of for 20 years is broken...but I was never part of it. I reach across the isle and touch my coworkers. Obama has never gone against his party leaders. Reform. Liberal big spending. Obama votes for every increase in spending. I don't like pork barrels. To Chicago. For a projector. For a planetarium. I don't even know what a projector is, let alone a planetarium. You youngsters should just go outside if you want to see the stars.
What are your spending priorities, in order?
GT: Can do it all at once. Have to touch my colleagues across the aisle (did he just turn and talk to the wall for a bit?) Alternative fuels! Reform! Touching! Americans! Overcome! (Did he just suggest that some of the $700billion is going to the terrorists?)
Hawt Tom: Stay within the time limits.
O: We will have to prioritize. Energy, because foreign oil is bad for national security. $15bill/year for ten years toward energy independence. Health care and then education. When GT suggests a $300bill tax cut, that's money *out* of the system. We can't do that....or we'll have no money!!

Hawt Tom: TIME!

What sacrifices will you ask Americans to make to get us out of this mess?
GT: Eliminate certain agencies that aren't working -- BUT NOT DEFENSE SPENDING. Eliminate earmarks. Like overhead projector whatsits. Cut everything except defense and veterans affairs spending. Freeze everything! We can do energy and health care at the same time (I don't think GT understood the point of that question)
O: 9/11 FIRST!!!!!! FTW!!!!!! W00T!!!111!!1!!!!ONe one one!!! (GT is looking at the wall in dismay. He wanted to say 9/11 first) Bush shouldn't have told people to go out and shop after 9/11. He should have told us to do stuff to conserve energy. And only buy American (as long as they produce hybrids) cars. Double the Peace Corp (ugh, no) and encourage all youngsters to join the military (dude...when did Obama become McCain?).
How would you break our bad debt habits?
O: Start with Washington - set good example. Show that we're all in this together/all sharing the burden. Politicians, gov't agencies, fat cats on Wall Street, you, and I. GT's across the board freeze is hatchety....we want to be scalpelly.
GT: (did he just make a nail to the wall joke at an African American?) We've lost 700,000 jobs in America. Obama wants to increase taxes on 50% of small business revenue. That's going to lose jobs. The economy is bad (GT finally admits the obvious). I say double tax refund for multiple child families (BULLSHIT) and don't raise anyone's taxes. Especially rich people.

O: NOOOOO!!!! WE HAVE TO TAX RICH PEOPLE!!!

Social security/medicare:
O: We have to take on entitlements, quickly. I want to do this in my first term. Tax cut for 95% of Americans is what I'm proposing. If you make $250K or less, your taxes will go down - this includes almost all small business owners. So GT can eat it. Hard. GT want to give tax cuts rich people. If we do what I propose, we won't have a problem with SSec or Medicare.
GT: I'll answer the question. Huh huh huh. Social Security is EASY PEASY. All we have to do is touch each other like Ronald Regan liked to do. Obama doesn't take on his party leaders. I take on my leaders. With touching. What we have to do is get smart people together and make them figure it out. Yeah. That's a great idea! Obama has voted 94 times to increase or keep taxes at the same level (Obviously GT does not read factcheck.org). I fight taxes. I'm GT.

How will you force congress to move fast in your first two years regarding the environment and greening up America?
GT: I think Bush is stupid. He doesn't think we're messing up the environment. Climate change is real. Nuclear power is the answer. We had those on Navy ships. We can move forward on alternative energy and use it to create jobs (but he doesn't say how he'll get Congress to act - FAIL).
O: Create a new energy economy and we will create 5 million new jobs. BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE AN INVESTMENT. IE, no icy hatchets.
(note: had to corral dogs, missed discussion)

Hawt Tom: Red means stop. Follow the lights.

Follow up: Should we fund a Manhattan like project or fund individuals across the country?
GT: Start with government then move to private sector. Also, goodies. I hate 'em. But I love off-shore drilling. Yeah.

Health care - should it be treated as a commodity?
O: Lots of people have no or inadequate health insurance. I propose that if you want to keep your plan, you can. But we're going to lower your premiums. If you don't have health insurance, we're going to offer you to buy federal health care w/o regard to if you have a pre-existing condition. GT is going to give you a 5K tax credit for health care...but he's going to tax you to pay for that tax credit. And he's not going to let us x-ray your boobies to look for cancer.
GT: Health insurance is expensive. Needs to be efficient. Put records online! Be efficient! But, Obama wants to impose limits and fines you if you don't have health coverage. I just want to throw you $5k! Don't you just want $5k??? Come on!!! Don't you want choice? Let's not mandate things on each other! That makes so little sense that you have to believe me!!
Is health care a privelage, a right, or a responsibility?
GT: Responsibility. But the government shouldn't mandate it.
O: Right for every American. Time be damned. I'm not going to mandate you to my coverage - I'll let you do what you want. If you do what I want, I'll give you credit. But ALL children will be covered. GT voted against expansion of Childrens Health Care bill. Gov't should crack down on insurance companies. (GT makes notes in his Memento notebook)

Hawt Tom: Stop talking! Time!!

How will our economic downturn affect our ability to act as a peacemaker in the world?
GT: We need a strong economy to have a strong military presence. The more we bleed, the more we're spreading peace. BLEED! Stop the terrorists with our BLOOD! Even if we didn't always do good, we meant well. I am willing to stand on my judgement. I wouldn't stand on Obama's judgement. He's just a whipper snapper.
O: You're right. I don't understand why we invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 (second reference, Obama again). That was wrong. And expensive. The Iraq war has put an enormous strain on our troops and our budget. We need that money here...let the Iraquis spend their own monies. We are a force of good in the world. But we have to reign in our world presence until we get our economy back in line. We have to change Bush's and McCain's foreign policy.
What is the Obama doctrine for use of force when we dont' have national security issues at stake?
O: We may not always have national security at stake - it may be moral obligation. We have to stop genocide and ethnic cleansing. This is part of our national interest - but only where possible. We can't be everywhere all the time - That's why we have to *work with our allies*. We're not the only country in the world (he didn't say that. I added)
McCain doctrine?
GT: (stop calling me your friend, creepty Grandpa Turtle) We had to stop Iraq. Otherwise they'd be huge! Just like I'm huge in Arizona. Go A Z! Have to temper decisions on when to send troops with our ability to beneficially affect the situation....obviously, you can see my point in how well we're doing in Iraq. Or at least not leave if it might make a bad situation that we created worse.

Should the US respect Pakistani soveriegnty?
O: We messed up by going into Iraq. Now we've created this bad situation in Pakistan. Now Obama's groups in Pakistan are raiding our troops. Unfortunately, now the center of the war on terrorism is in the mountains of Pakistan. We need to get out of Iraq and change our policies with Pakistan's government. We need to encourage democracy in Pakistan, increase non-military aid to that gov't, and if we have ObL in our sites, take him out.
GT: Obama has a tiny stick. And his announcement that he's going to attack Pakistan hurts national security. You can't tell Pakistan we're going to attack them...we have to pretend to work with them and then attack them when they're not looking!
O: I didn't say we're going to attack Pakistan, you dottering fool. I said we're going to attack ObL. Sheesh. And he doesn't exactly speak softly...he gossiped like an old biddy about how we planned to attack North Korea and Iraq.
GT: Nuh uh! You're a lying poop face. I would never involve those who I use to do stuff. I'll always surprise them!
Follow up: We're failing in Afghanistan, we need an acceptable dictor. How do you reorganize?
O: Make Iraqi gov't take more responsibility. Take troops out of Iraq and put them in Afghanistan. We want a democracy but we need a gov't that's responsive to the Afghany people.
GT: Patreus and I are old buddies. We have to surge in Iraq! Secure. Hold. Touch across the isle! Patreus did a great job in Iraq. He'll do the same in Afghanistan!

How can we pressure Russia without starting a cold war?
GT: Russia's behavior is bad, bad, bad. Bad Russia. Bad Vladmir "KGB" Putin. He has beady eyes and they're after Ukraine. We have to make Russia understand that we don't like their behavior - with our allies and with economic leverage.
O: Have to provide more than moral support - have to provide financial support for them to rebuild their economies. (um.....what about our economy?) We need to use our crystal balls. Energy is key to dealing with Russia.

(whiskey makes me sleepy. gin was better)

Is Russia an evil empire?
O: Tom, I'll be honest with you, I am incapable of giving a yes or no answer.
GT: Maybe *giggle*

Israel - if Iran attacks, would you commit troops or would you wait on support from UN security council.
GT: We can't rely on the UN, sill, Russia and China would vote no. Gah. We have to go in on our own just like we did with Afghanistan and Iraq. We have to join with our allies and friends in a league of democracies to kll the Iranian quest for nuclear weapons. No more genocides!
O: We can't allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon. It might get to the terrorists. It is important that we don't provide veto power to the UN or anyone else when acting in our own interests (did he really just say that?). We have to talk to these nations - allies and potential enemies.

What don't you know and how will you learn it?
(I like this question. But I think it should have been rhetorical - more like "Please keep this in mind for your entire presidency".)
O:
GT: I don't know what's going to happen in the future. We will be faced with new and different challenges. We'll learn all about countries we didn't know existed right before we bomb them. My dad did America.
(BOTH CANDIDATES FAIL THIS QUESTION)

Hawt Tom: Hey you kids, get offa mah porch!! The end!

RECAP (discussion with friend Rucas):

me: what'd you think?
Lucas: Which candidate won the debate?
erm
I think Obama was stronger especially in the first half of the debate McCain laughed to much and used too many one liners
me: I was really frustrated at how little either of them actually addressed the questions. And it reminded me why I always avoid these things. Oddly, I think Biden won out of all four of them. Lucas: Yeah, that's why the last half of the debate was *meh*.
me: Yeah - apparently McPalin is running on their ability to joke with us.
Lucas: One of the questions in the beginning was directly addressed by Obama I think it was the first question? or the second? (from the audience)
me: Let me check the blog Oh, yeah, the economy and the bailout. You're right - they both stuck on topic at first.
Lucas: And I thought Obama pwnd McCains face w/ the answer :D
me: Maybe the problem is they were so busy trying to defend what the other said in the last question that they never answered the fresh
Lucas: Yes exactlY! You're right on the money with that.
me: Isn't that the problem in general with politics?
Lucas: Yes. Point fingers
me: Why nothing ever gets done?
Lucas: You're fault
me: 'Sactly
Lucas: No, you're wrong here's proof actually, here's different proof and I'm going to ignore your proof b/c mine's proofer :(
me: hah1 proofie
*proofier
Lucas: :D

RECAP: On Public Televsion
Interesting point: Why do the candidates keep saying that the money from the bailout will go to the terrorists unless we work on energy independence? Or first oil supplier is Canada. Followed in the number two spot by Saudi Arabia. And coming in third for major oil supplier to America? Mexico.

UPDATE: Debate transcript on CNN